Thursday, January 30, 2003

Jack the newest member in the [shut up and say thank you] club had this to say in the comments to the post below:
“Think about it, where are bomb shelters, duh, in government or large buildings with a GPS coordinate on someone's list. I can't believe after reading some of the articles you posted that you don't think your government wouldn't mind using you as a shield. Just stay in your home, you will be much safer. When someone knocks on your door and says "U.S. Army/Marines", then you can come out. Believe me, your welfare are at the top of our thoughts. Our goal is to help everyone be as free as us. It may sound corny but it is true. We have always come as liberators. Thousands of young Americans have died over the last 226+ years to help others be free. With all you have to offer, you guys should be as prosperous and peaceful as anywhere else. Who knows. Supposedly the beginnings of man were there. Maybe we'll have a new beginning there to show the rest of the world how it should be.”
dear jack
Duh yourself ! since you obviously have not been to Baghdad you are not an authority on where the bomb shelters are. These shelters, I think around 30 of them, were built during the Iraq-Iran war. Yes some of them were part of military complexes but many were built in civilian neighborhoods, they were built during a time when the government would give huge loans to people building shelters in their own backyards and bomb shelters became part of the building code for any public building. Jack that statement is simply not correct.
Has anyone been able to prove that on the night that shelter has been used as a C&C center, that there was anyone of importance beside the obligatory Party members? Bad intelligence? Shit happens? Well you pooped on me buddy, don’t expect me to be all ah-great-america-we-love-you, and your government will be pooping on me some more, now how does that make me feel?
I am not taking any of that “the great liberators – help others to be free” talk because I do not believe there is such a thing in politics called altruism, there are no free lunches and no one does *anything* without some personal motives. So if your government is going to go to war it is not because they are “helping others to be free” it’s because a hundred other reasons and this one just happens to be a nice one to throw to the public. And no, I will not say it’s the oil, because it is not only oil, although it is a nice little extra thrown in.
I think may be you should read this article [Perils of Victory] (link indirectly via eve tushnet, she linked to [looking on the bright side] which had a link to perils of victory), it starts with a quote from Graham Greene’s “The Quite American”:
“He was incapable of imagining pain or danger to himself as he was incapable of conceiving the pain he might cause others” ……. “The consequences will not be immediate” predicts an Arab ambassador at the UN “you might see GIs distributing chocolates in the streets of Baghdad and being embraced – for three months. And then the opposition to the new colonial power will emerge, and to any other clients being imposed as Iraqi leaders”.*
You just make it sound so easy, you know it’s not. But what the hell, after watching the victorious American army march thru the streets of Baghdad you’ll just turn CNN off and look for another show.
Jack, I hope you understand my view, we simply don’t trust the motives of your government. And if that government is going to war with Iraq we are not naïve to think that they are doing it because they want to spread love and freedom. I am not even sure peace and freedom are going to be among the side effects of that war.
*Diane: remember when I wrote to you about that Sophia Loren movie with that scene? Look, Mr. Arab ambassador has seen that film too, this amongst all things is an image which irrationally annoys me, you told me I was not making sense (I wasn’t) but it still bugs me. Is there a way to at least tell them not to distribute Hershey bars or anything with marshmallow filling?
was looking thru the comments, Russil I am quoting you here [from the comments]: "But Americans shouldn't say that they're going to war for humanitarian reasons. As you can see, it just pisses people off." thank you. I have always been told to get to the point and not go around in circles. that was my point